Do you price design with content/copy included?
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In all of my core website packages for small businesses, I include copywriting and content. I consider good copy to be part of the core of a good website. I have even written about this: http://windingstaircasellc.com/2011/04/small-business-web-design-how-to-find-and-evaluate-a-web-design-firm/
I am increasingly having folks ask me, "can I give you the copy and pictures, to save some expense?"
Should copy and/or basic content be part of my basic packages? (Should I have pre-priced packages is probably another conversation in itself.) I don't want to be a "$250 and 2 hours later" guy, and I fear joining the race to the bottom.
Your thoughts? -
I want to say that you are very lucky if clients are even offering to provide you with the content upfront since a lot that I've come across take it as an afterthought and believe you can just fill in Lorem Ipsum and get the design just right. Unless you are a skilled copywriter I wouldn't include content as a line item. However, I would keep the prices the same and then consider either contracting out a copywriter or letting them know they will pay more if you have to provide content. Just as long as you communicate how important content is for you to give them a quality design they will understand things.
If all you are doing is creating WP themes then throw everything I just said out the window. -
I don't. Simply because I know my level of copywriting is not sufficient. Counterquestion though: most of the small businesses I'm lucky to call my clients deliver their own text. It might not always be perfect, and sometimes I guide and help them towards better copy, but only a few of my clients ever asked for me to copywrite (and I helped them find a good writer rather than trying myself).
I understand you feel copy is an important part of a website, but should it really be part of _your_ core package? I don't think so. Offering it as a separate option with separate pricing would make more sense to me, and lead to clearer pricing I think. -
@RoyAhuis: Exactly. When it comes to copywriting and content it seems like a good area for subcontracts. There are definitely a number of copywriters out there who would love to jump on in a subcontract role. Speak with them and get their price, then bump up the price a little bit on your end and include it in the contract if a client wishes to have that extra service.
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Being both a copywriter and a designer, I often quote for design, build and copy, with a separate quote for just design and build. Sadly, many of my web design clients don't appreciate the value of good copy, and think that because they know their customers well, they're qualified to write the content... With only a couple of exceptions, this never works out well.
I think good solid copy is fundamental to creating a web page that works. Without it, you have a pretty picture and some nice typography at best - at worst, you have a liability.
If a client questions the need for professional copywriting, ask them why they don't value it? Maybe explain how it can improve their conversion rate and lower their bounce rate, and actually make their investment better value in the long run. -
I'd love it if my clients were willing to spring for professionally written copy. With few exceptions, I can literally see their eyes glaze over when I suggest they secure the services of a professional copywriter. I think they appreciate the benefits of professionally written copy... but not enough to actually pay for it.
If a client is supplying their own copy (which they invariably do), I will give them some guidelines to help them stay on track. And if I notice errors in their text copy, or think it could do with some editing, then I'll offer advice. I won't actually write their copy for them, but I think that a certain degree of copywriting comes with the job description. -
Copy and images are always an afterthought with most clients. They think it just magically appears in that voodoo I do when building a site.
I worked as an editor, copywriter before I even got into the web, so I'm confident to offer it as a service, but I'm no longer actively promoting it.
It's certainly not part of any package, and I only do it when I have something worthwhile to add or when it comes with a site; not just as a separate service.
Images I don't do either anymore. I used to be a bit of a photography buff and took classes but don't have a good enough camera anymore. I will offer to look for CC images or find someone to do specific shoots.
But often enough, when a client hears what separate copywriting or photography costs, they tend to reel back and do it themselves. Their choice, their loss.
PS I should add that even when supplying great copy, chances are the client (if they have a CMS) will tinker with what exists at some point, or for the sake of cheap, add new content themselves. I had a client who's messed with their site so much by now I hardly want to mention it in my portfolio anymore. -
@jnicol and also @RoyAhuis I think it's great that you do take up some responsibility for content. I've seen so many tech guys or printers who just blindly copy stuff and don't even notice there's something wrong.
@notbanksy We're lucky in part, that we can professionally value the existing copy and offer to rewrite, edit or even start from scratch. Drawback is that my eyes often bleed when seeing other people's copy (hey, everyone knows how to write, right) and I can't touch it. I want to, but then I'd be doing it for free. -
@nilsgeylen sooooo tempting to tidy up bad copy when you're working on a site. But you're right about working for free. Having said that, it's a dilemma, because nobody wants to be associated with a disastrous website. Where do you draw the line?
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@notbanksy I suppose blatant errors, spelling mistakes and grammar I will correct, but I will mention it; if it's just one or two instances, I'll correct it, if it's site-wide I'll tell them to fix it first. But the point remains, where is that line, how do you 'sell' the need for a rewrite if it's horrible.
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Wow, thanks for all the great feedback on this. The consensus seems to be that copy should either not be offered or be offered as an upsell or extra.
Coming from corporate brand management, it never occurred to me that anyone would hire a design or marketing shop without wanting copy. I see @jnicol @RoyAhuis @notbanksy and @nilsgylen all seem to be especially bothered by the poor copy that is sometimes used, and my great fear is to show prospective new clients a portfolio of sites filled with errors.
I am going to change the way I sell. I will still strongly recommend Winding Staircase handle the copy work, but I won't force it. Given how few people want to pay for even Google analytics to be set-up on their sites, however, I expect many folks are going to balk at paying for copy.
Keep the thoughts coming! I know not everyone thinks highly of the WP crowd, but most of my clients are starting with either nothing, or something like this: http://www.starlitedriveinohio.com/
How can you not want me to help these folks find an affordable improvement? ;) -
I come from a different angle any others, in that I market myself as a content strategist that does web development, rather than as a designer who includes copy writing and editing, although I used to do it the other way around. And I've found that when I present content as point of their website, they are much more eager to pay for content services.
When consulting with a potential client, I only talk about graphic design in terms of their communication strategy, and then only in broad strokes: feelings they want to convey, established brand elements, and key terms. After that, we work out a content strategy and an editorial calendar for creating content before we even start talking about graphic design. In short, I shape the client's thought processes to concentrate on nothing but content. But this way, when we start talking about the graphic design, it is in terms of how well the content (which they have been thinking about nonstop).
Sometimes I will help write content, but most of my clients write their own (mind you, I work with nonprofits, who tend to emphasize content creation). This way, while copywriting is an added fee (and all my fees are calculated hourly), content editing is a fundamental part of my work. And when I present copywriting this way, clients are much more willing to spend the time and money on taking care of their copy. -
@thebestsophist Your positioning is interesting. I started out by trying to position as a "content marketer," but I failed miserably.
When you prospect, do you call yourself a web guy or a content guy? Thanks for the comments, I am enjoying the insights. -
@jpjeremy I definitely market myself as a content guy. My business cards say "Content strategist, UX advocate, HTML junkie."
I was talking about my process with a potential client today, and after some thought, I actually prefer clients that write their own content. But with a caveat: during the project, I act as editor for all of their pre-launch content creation. That way, I train them to get into the act of content creation and curation. In short, instead of copywriting for clients, I teach them how to manage their own content to keep it fresh. But I also don't take on static web projects, and all of the projects I work on include content distribution components (blogs, social media, event calendars, et cetera).
I have to say, it is taking me a long time to build my business this way. It is a whole lot harder to get a sustainable client base that wants and appreciates this sort of work. Even clients whose projects are entirely content-based have complained to me saying that all they want is for me to build the damn website and screw the content strategy. I used to say okay and work on the project anyway, but I've found that neither I nor the client end up being happy with the product. -
Not to hijack the thread, but I'm interested in learning more about copywriting. I'm also very intrigued by the idea of content strategy. I currently sell design only and let my clients write their copy. So far it's worked out fine for me because of who my clients are, but I could see where selling content strategy might be very beneficial to a client. I consider myself a decent writer but I know nothing about copywriting. Any good resources you guys can recommend where I could learn more?
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@skasilva03 Copywriting and technical writing are specialized formats. I encourage self-learning, but be prepared for the reality that content strategy and creation are very time-consuming.
There are several good places to start becoming more aware of sales copywriting. Dan Kennedy has written several quality books. To dive in right away, I think the team at CopyBlogger.com does a good job of covering the basics of web sales copy. -
@jpjeremy - Awesome, thanks for the advice!
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To me good copy is just as important in many respects as a good design. I would never do copy as to me it's just not my skillset and I'm perfectly fine with that. I'd rather my focus be on the area of the design and front end. Just like I'd work with a developer for heavier back end lifting the same would go with a copywriter.
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@sdasilva03, I learned copywriting on the job in a previous life, so I can't really recommend any resources (unless you can find a former magazine editor for a boss). However, the best books to start learning about content strategy are Erin Kissane's The Elements of Content Strategy (http://abookapart.com/products/the-elements-of-content-strategy) and Kristina Halvorson's Content Strategy for the Web (http://contentstrategy.com/). @jpjeremy's warning is quite right, though. Good content strategy takes a long time (and is organic), a lot of clients pause when I tell them my content strategy projects tend to span quarters, not months or weeks.
